Interview with Robin Smalley of Mothers2Mothers

I am very pleased to introduce you toRobin Smalley, a woman who has turned her personal  losses into a huge gain for world health – the elimination of pediatric AIDS.   She has rebuilt her life, a totally new one at that, by serendipitously coming into her passion of giving to other mothers.   Ms. Smalley co-foundedMothers2Mothers, a South African NGO (non-governmental organization) providing education and empowerment for pregnant women and new mothers with HIV/AIDS.  She is the international director of this nonprofit that is tirelessly working to prevent mother-to-child transmission of this virus in Africa.

1. What personal qualities have helped you carry on and move on in a positive direction?

I think I’m a big one for denial.  Without being funny truly I’m sort of like a teenager who never really believes anything bad is going to happen to them.   With my breast cancer where everybody else was so worried and looking at me like I was about to die, I never felt like this was going to be a life-changer or life-ender.  I’ve always been the person to do what has to be done and get on with things.   I’ve never been one to dwell.  For me it was more inconvenient than anything else – like ‘what do you mean I have to have radiation everyday for nine weeks; I don’t have time.’

At the beginning when my stepfather went, I could rationalize that he was ill and it was for the best.

When my mother died, it was horrible.  She was very young and it was unexpected.  I remember at the time thinking, “I’m never going to be able to hum again.”  For months it was like my throat closed up.  The music would play and I couldn’t physically hum to it.  I felt like my chest was never released.  But it’s true what they say:  everyday is better than the previous day.

I’ve always been a really positive thinker and been one to count my blessings.  I felt incredibly blessed.  I had parents who loved me.  I had difficulties in my childhood but I always had a roof over my head and food to eat and I got a good education.  I felt really lucky.  I came from a fairly poor background.  Summer fun was playing in the fire hydrant in the Bronx.  I’d look around and say ‘wow, I have so much to be grateful for.’

When my mom went, I kept relying on that; I kept saying, “O.K but I had her.  I had her for 67 years.  Look how lucky I am.”  It was really hard but you get through it.

Then when Karen, my best friend died, all of that deserted me.  All that positive outlook, the counting of blessings, it just knocked me down.  It was the first time in my life I wasn’t able to find the bright side.  Even when I was going for all my breast surgeries, I’d say, “but the surgeon’s cute.”   There’s always something.   But when Karen went, it just broad-sided me.  You don’t expect to lose your best friend, your peer, and she had two children.  It threw me into that whole thing, ‘it’s not fair, it’s not fair.’  When our kids say things aren’t fair, we tell them, ‘well life’s not fair, get over it.’  So I was saying, life’s not fair and I couldn’t get over it.  I didn’t recognize myself.  That was the scariest thing.  I didn’t know who I was if I couldn’t find a bright side. 

 

2. Was there a specific moment, thought or epiphany that helped guide you to a better place mentally and psychologically or did it evolve?

When Mitch, Karen’s brother, invited me to come to Capetown, South Africa, I thought that was the craziest thing.  I couldn’t even get out of bed.  My husband was really concerned.  I have a family history of clinical depression; never me personally but my mother, my brother, they had depression.  So my husband made me go.

My first day there I was meeting women who were so extraordinary and so brave and had so much spirit and joy where they had no reason to be joyful.  These were women who lived in a cardboard shack with no electricity, no water.  They were alone, they had AIDS; they were as down as I could imagine.  And yet they were finding the bright side.  They were finding things to get up in the morning for and they would sing.  And I remember thinking, ‘my God it took me over a year before I could sing after my mother died.’  They got to the clinic and they’d dance as they prayed.  It was like a bucket of cold water.  It was my first day there.  I knew nothing about Africa, nothing about AIDS.  I called my husband and I said, “I have to do this, we have to move here.”    My husband shockingly said O.K.

Literally a month later we picked up the kids, the dogs and the house and moved.  It was the absolute best thing.  Karen and my mother had been very close.  I believe the two of them made this happen.  I’ve always thought they knew this was the right thing for me.   It all just came so easily.  There were all these things – if this doesn’t happen we can’t move, and on and on.  But it all just fell into place.

In retrospect, it continued to do so.  People thought I was insane.  I quit my job, my husband left his work, we had nothing to go to.  We were doing the program out of Mitch’s car.  We didn’t have anything but a great idea.  Within 7 years we built it into a 20 million dollar business that’s the largest employer of HIV-positive women in the world.  It was something that needed to be done.  What a gift I was given-  to find the passion of my life at 48 years old when I’d had a successful career.  I won the awards, I was making good money as a television director.  But it was a job; and it was fun.  But I’ve found something that is truly a blessing.   It’s been a life-changer for me and my family.

All of a sudden I was in this place, I didn’t have time for grief.   I was learning so hard so fast, it felt like my head was going to explode at the end of the day.  I felt like a newborn must feel but can’t articulate it.  I was learning so much and it was so exciting.  It got me using my brain. You get to a certain point in your career that you simply know how to do what you do.  What people don’t always know is that the skills they have can be used in so many ways.  If you had asked me in a rational moment, “do you have skills as a TV director that are applicable to running a non-profit in Africa for AIDS”, I would’ve said, “are you kidding me!”  Can you imagine two things more different.   I would venture to say that any skill anybody has, has way more applications than they’re giving themselves credit for. 

I felt my mother and Karen there so strongly supporting me.  I missed them but I wasn’t grieving. 

When you’re focused on that much positive, there’s just not a lot of room for the negative.  There’s only so much you can do at one time and I don’t think you can do both of those at the same time.  I’m such a believer now; I know it’s a platitude, butthe best and only way to get over depression is to get over yourself and do for somebody else.  We do for other people because it makes us feel good.  Anybody who says otherwise is fooling themselves.  And you can’t feel bad and good at the same time.

Ask any young person, ‘what do you want to do when you grow up?’  You want to make a difference.  If you feel you’re doing that, then nothing makes you as happy.  If you’re feeling that, then you want to get out of bed in the morning.

 

3.  Did you go through a period of self-pity?

I don’t think so.  I went through tremendous sadness and loss and loneliness.  Even at the worst of it I knew that you can always look around if you keep your eyes open and say, there but by the grace of God go.  I have a beautiful family and two healthy children; no, I could never do the self-pity thing.

 

4.  What advice would you give someone going through loss?

Look to help somebody who needs some help.  I really feel the best way to deal with grief is to give to somebody else, anything.

My father passed away in January.  I found this piece, (I don’t even know where it’s from) that I’m going to read at his unveiling.  It says:

“Now that I’m gone remember me with smiles and laughter.  And if you need to cry, cry with your brother or sister who walks in grief beside you.  When you need me, put your arms around anyone and give to them what you need to give to me.  There are so many who need so much. I want to leave you something, something much better than words or sounds.  Look for me in the people I’ve known or helped in some special way.  Let me live in your heart as well as in your mind.  You can love me most by letting your love reach out to our loved ones; by embracing them and living in their love.  Love does not die, people do.  So when all that’s left of me is love, give me away as best you can.”

That’s it.  And that is my advice.  Stop thinking about yourself and think about somebody else and it is the best healer.

 

 

Please give us an overview of this global life-changing organization,Mothers2Mothers.

We work with HIV-positive new mothers and pregnant women to prevent the transmission of HIV to their children.  We are part of the global plan to eliminate pediatric HIV by 2015 and keep mothers alive.  We have virtually eradicated pediatric AIDS in the US and Europe.  But we still have 900 babies a day born in Africa with HIV, completely preventable and unnecessary.  We train and employ HIV-positive mothers as peer mentors to other women.  The medical systems are so broken.  There are basically no doctors; the nurses do everything and they’re overworked and overwhelmed  and the last thing they have time to do is counsel a young HIV positive pregnant woman how to avoid transmitting the virus.  For these young women, they think it’s a death sentence. Because of the stigma they’re afraid to disclose to their husbands or their family and so they go home to die, and  their baby as well.  All the interventions are there and available.  All it takes is empowering and educating young women.  The global health community has gotten together and is saying that we can eliminate pediatric AIDs by 2015.  In the next three years we can do this.  What a legacy that we can leave.  This isn’t a black hole.  There’s so much for so little that we can do to prevent a generation of children from being born sick.

We now employ 1500 HIV positive mothers.  We have 600 sites in seven countries.  And we’re working with the governments of other countries to implement the mentor-mother model into their national health care standards.

 

Additional link:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/robin-smalley-mothers-to-mothers_n_1694468.html

Please check out the website: www.m2m.org  There is so much wonderfully informative and fascinating information there.   And many utubes.  If you are moved to donate, it would obviously be greatly appreciated.  Please share this important message.  Thank you for stopping by to read.